Thoughts on the second pack, and roadmap for pack 3!


Man, you ever have one of those situations where you have to put something off, so you can put ANOTHER thing off, so you can get to a third thing? Busy times here, but mostly in a good way. I'm a little loopy at the moment though, so sorry if this sounds a bit brain damaged.

Thoughts on Pack Two

I had mentioned wanting to discuss this pack a little more once people had a chance to play, so now that it's been out a while I'll do just that. A lot of this will may be nothing new if you've been on the Substar, or just one of the people I happened to discuss these things with individually, but I want to try to collect everything in one place.

Like everything with CS, the packs were always an ongoing experiment. Tentatively there were supposed to be three, but that was never a full guarantee; the plan was to do one, see how it went, do another if it went well, and so on. Pack one went very well, in response, in sales, and in terms of the time and effort it took vs the reward. Which lead to pack two.

At this point, I think it's safe to say pack two has ALSO done very well. I thought it had a good chance of doing so, but again, there were no guarantees. The first pack was a strong contender, because it filled out basic parts of the story and game, and really needed to get done for it to be complete. Two is more about fun extras, and I took a risk on some new gameplay. Partially because I didn't have time to do a full new fight mechanic, and partially because I wanted something different for the Center Path anyway. As always, it bounced back and forth between cutting stuff and adding stuff. For example, on the one hand I had hoped to do more alley scenes, but on the other I hadn't originally planned to fully write out each of the scenes. So players got a little less and a little more. I'm also STILL not fully happy with how the loss scene turned out, but it works well enough, and people seem to be enjoying it.

One thing I AM very happy with is the new outfit.


Originally I sketched a version of this for the Host Club, but while I really liked it, it just didn't have the right vibe. Too trashy and street, not fancy enough. I vaguely imagined it might be neat for whatever I ended up doing with the Center Path, but at that point plans were vague, and it wasn't a sure thing the Center Path would even get made. It got shelved.

When I started on pack two, I dusted it off and was pleased to see it was just as good as I remembered. A little tweaking, and it came out really well. I think this is the best outfit yet, and a lot of you seem to agree. Just lookit 'im!

The other thing I'm really happy with this update is just the slow, steady improvement art-wise. When I tried to do a kneeling oral pic in CS, it looked like the left. Now, in this pack, it looks like the right.


Still a lot to learn, but I don't think it's patting myself on the back TOO much to say there's significant improvement there. Both overall and in terms of really starting to get a handle on the character.

And Now, Pack Three!

I am now officially confirming I'll be doing the third and final pack. This one will be somewhat more modest, but still a lot of fun. First, I'll finally be adding a second job to the plaza; I always intended to have multiple options there, and while I'm not going to do the full three I had planned, I think a second one should fill it out nicely. It will be at the Strip Club, but not what you might imagine. It also won't be structured like the other job, with the standard scenes. I have a special gameplay/minigame I've wanted to try out for a while that I'm going to take a swing at.

And second, I'm finally putting in a gallery! And a pretty neat one at that. I have the basics already prototyped and working, I just need to pretty it up, go through the painstaking process of tweaking all the scenes to handle it correctly, and solve a few last structural issues. Maybe not the most exciting, but it will go a long way toward finally making the game feel fully "complete." I'll eventually add the gallery feature to CS as well, but that'll be a little farther down the line.

Timelines as always are hard to pin down (though I did manage to hit my deadline for pack two!). I'm going to say two to three months on this one, starting the end of April, so end of July at the latest. HOPEFULLY. In theory the remaining gallery work should go fairly fast, and the new gameplay/minigame, while fresh with some new problems to solve, is just one job, so it shouldn't take THAT long. But exploring fresh territory does mean unexpected issues sometimes, and I also have some unpleasant IRL stuff to deal with in the next couple months that may eat into my time a little. Still, I think two to three months is fairly realistic.

Thanks to everyone for your continued support. It's easy, once things really start chugging like this to start taking things for granted, but I do my best not to. It's because of all of you that things ARE chugging so well, you're the chug. The sales here, the support on SubStar, and just the time and effort people put in on this, helping me find bugs, discussing gameplay, characters, story, making fanart, charting the gameflow, even translating the games into other languages. And of course, putting up with me :D. It's all wild, and I never stop being humbled that this weird little thing I enjoy making is enjoyed so much by all of you. I do my best to work hard and diligently, of course. But there are a whole lot of people who work a whole lot harder and are never lucky enough to find the kindness, appreciation and enthusiasm you've shown me. Thank you.

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Comments

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(+2)

Downloading the newest version now, I'm always excited for new developments. For people saying 10$ is too much... I feel like a 1 time charge of 10$ to keep this game forever and get free updates and content from the creator while the game is still their focus is way more worth, in my personal opinion, say, subscribing to a channel/artist that requires a monthly subscription of 10$ to view their stuff that doesn't release content very frequently. That's not to say I don't support those people as well or that there's something wrong with that, but I mean, once you pay for the game, it's yours. I honestly appreciate that that's the case and I enjoy checking in and seeing what's going on, it's like a cherry on top of the ice cream.

To be fair, I have the subscription too. But that's more of an option for extra support, and for those who want a head-start on the releases. That initial $10 purchase does indeed get you, in the case of GT, the game and soon three extra content releases, which I think is a pretty good deal. Subjective of course, and if someone buys the game and just isn't into it for whatever reason I'm usually happy to refund as long as that's not abused. But most people seem pretty happy with that, and I'm definitely big on old school "ownership" of games, rather than a lot of the nonsense that gets pulled these days.

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Definitely a good deal. Having a Subscription option for early access and extra features I think is totally reasonable. I personally am a patient individual, and for someone like me, if I see something is available on Subscribestar early for the game and I don't feel like waiting, it's cool to have that option, and otherwise gives Supporters an option to donate with the incentive of early access. I know some Creators can't always release stuff monthly for their Subscribers, and that was perhaps a poor analogy I used, however in this case I just appreciate that there technically isn't a paywall to acquire any additional content for it after buying the game. 2 weeks really isn't that long, and if it were to be longer, I wouldn't have a problem Subscribing or just waiting. 

Also, I feel like Chapter One being free (Thank the Kind Stars) gives the player a good chance to gauge whether the purchase for Chapter Two will be worth it, and if it wasn't, at least they can get a refund under honest circumstances, which is really outstanding that you would offer. But again, we should be doing our part here too, Chapter One being free should be the time the player wonders, do I enjoy the series so far and want to invest 10$ for Chapter Two? I feel like you are pretty communicative with your supporters in regards to updates and schedules, which can help a person gauge whether or not the project is active, what they thought it was, worth investing in, and what to expect. I do have a bias because I like the series, but I like to think there was unbiased logic in there that I hope makes sense to people in opposite situations as me, or for people who are curious about trying the Series 😁

Exactly. The first game is very intentionally the gateway drug, something to give people a sense of what they can expect and build goodwill. I'm old as the sands of time, so I remember a time when "Shareware" was a thing. Not just demos, but a whole meaty first chunk of the game was yours to play, and it really helped build a culture and enthusiasm around those games. And I'd say that's even more important for a game like this, because there's so much dross to sift through, so much chaff to find the wheat. A LOT of games, here and elsewhere are "proof of concepts" or "early access" (in this case meaning not an ongoing project, but the barest skeleton of a game that will see several refactors before being abandoned). People are understandably hesitant to drop $10 bucks on a whim just to see. So the first game proves that, yes, I can actually finish games, and demonstrates what that looks like. And if they enjoy it, THEN they can slap down the $10 to keep going.

(+1)

Made an account just to comment this after I saw Doomfurry96’s comment below. I just wanted you to know that even if some people have that opinion of your game, others have a completely opposite point of view and I am one of them. As I played through the latest update I thought to myself how with each new pack I am getting more bang for my buck. I definitely think the price tag is justified given the amount of content available at the moment and the fact that you are still working on it. 

All I am trying to say is I hope you don’t let those types of comments get to you, because for each person that feels the way Doomfurry96 does, there are many more who actually love the game. Proof of this is all over the comments. People praise the game, ask for more and there is even fanart! When gamers don’t like a game and think it’s a scam, they definitely let the developers know, and this has not been the case with CS. So just keep doing what you're doing, ‘cause you’re doing something right for sure.

PS: Also the price comparison they mention is just obnoxious. I don’t see anyone mouthing off to the creators of Cuphead or Hollow Knight for making their games more expensive and shorter than any of the other games they mentioned. As someone who also couldn't get through Tailbound, I prefer your game developing vision much more (and yet, you don’t see me harassing Tailbound’s dev, smh).

(+1)

Thanks, I definitely appreciate that. And I know, although it helps to be reminded. I'm in the comments every day, for both games, and the vast, vast majority of the comments are supportive, even when they're discussing issues with the game, or things they wish were different. I stand by what I said: people are absolutely allowed to dislike the game, in part or entirely. They're NOT allowed to be rude assholes, to me or the others here, so unfortunately I do have to hand out a ban every once it a while, but it's only been needed a handful of times. 

I'm very careful to listen to feedback and not get too far up my own ass, and it's a delicate balance. If a lot of people have a problem with something, it's probably important. But if only one or two do, AND they have a history of being disruptive for no good reason, there's not much a dev can do after a certain point, nor is there much point in doing it. There are various built-in costs of doing something like this, and one of them is having to handle these kinds of situations from time to time.

But yeah, I've thought and commented frequently that I don't deserve you guys. The support has been wild, and it really helps when I'm struggling with a thorny bit of art or programming. I still can't get over the fanart. Someone made CS-themed DRINKS.

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Heh I always thought the underground after the hidden boar scene before going to the desert was gonna be for part 3, but I guess I was wrong and it'll be on the 3rd game... Can't wait to see what's coming on 3rd part!

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I should clarify terms just in case there's confusion here: more boar scenes (and other carry-over scenes) are planned for the THIRD GAME, or CHAPTER 3. They won't be a part of the third CONTENT PACK however. I THINK that's what you're saying, just wanted to be sure.

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mostly i was just happy to see more fellatio in this installment, i'm an absolute sucker for that stuff (haha).
to be honest i wasn't expecting all the variety of mechanics, it's not bad or a waste and i wouldn't want to discourage you from being creative... but i would've been just as happy with the standard corruption mechanics you established earlier lol.

but if you're dead set on playing with new ways for mezz to struggle for control of his mind, i would suggest a kind of "orgasm control" mechanic: all you have to do as the player is help mezz resist the urge to cum, because it's when he cums he loses more control XD. lots of opportunities to put in a little joi or other hypno stuff.

maybe something for next chapter /shrug

anyway, had fun, would come again lmao.

(+1)

Aw thanks! Same, I definitely enjoy the oral stuff, but ironically that makes me cautious to not overdo it, so this game was actually a little dry there at first. Think it's pretty solidly supplied now though. As for mechanics, I always try to avoid being TOO samey, and the content packs especially are a good opportunity to test some stuff once I'm finished with the main game.

I actually had a bit of that "don't cum" mechanic in the first one, though it was fairly simple. I have a fairly good idea of what this last bit is going to be, but will definitely keep it in mind for future stuff.

But thanks! Glad you're enjoying it.

(+1)

so I’m curious will each game have a different species as the antagonist or will we be seeing the boars and hyenas more 

Each game has a new villain and henchmen of a new species, yes. Though there have been, and will continue to be some recurring situations and characters as well.

(+1)(-3)

While I enjoy the game for what it is, and I didn't have fun following along from your journey, from the first game, to working on this game, this is a little disappointing. This game feels short, and small for a 10$ price point, I was expecting quiet a bit more. I don't think I'll be purchasing a third game at the same price point. L4D2 is 10$, Lethal Company is 10$, Resident evil 3 remake is 10$, Tail bound is 10$, Doom 2016, is 10$, Duke Nukem world tour addition is 10$, Elder scrolls oblivion, and elder scrolls Morrowind.

I understand that you can't make an entire Bethesda RPG, but your game has about 2 or 3 play throughs worth of replayability, and even the lack luster resident evil 3 remake has more replayability, wether it's the RE-Resistance side game, or just multiple runs for multiple play styles, with unlocks and collectibles. 

Tail bound is an erotic furry RPG, that's 10$, and has like 30 enemies, and areas that are tricky to navigate, plus secrets and unlocks, including a secret boss fight, as well as several boss fights, it has a surprising amount of replayability, plus it's previous game thirst chasm was free and procedure generated. 

Hopefully you've learned from this game on how to make a robust RPG BUT I DO FIND THE CONTENT LACKING, AND I WILL NOT BE PAYING 10$ TWICE.

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Edit: Doomfurry turned off replies, so I'll simply replicate his last post, and my reply, at the bottom of this one.

Everyone has different price points, and different value expectations. If this game doesn't meet yours, you're certainly free to not buy in the future. 

Indie games and studio games are not directly comparable. Small games tend to come at a premium because they can't leverage scale like large production games can. Old games are not directly comparable to new games, value decays over time. Regular games are not directly comparable to porn games, for a variety of reasons: the bespoke aspect again, among others. But also because they serve a different niche. If you're looking for fast-paced FPS action, Cruel Serenade is not going to deliver. If you're looking to get off...I mean I'm sure SOME people can use Doom 2016 for that, but most would be hard-pressed to. 

If your objection is "This game isn't the most possible fun a person could have for $10!", you're probably right. There are a nearly infinite number of ways you could spend those ten dollars thanks to the internet, even if you restrict yourself to just video games. That's an impossible standard, and one I don't aim to meet. My value proposition is that there's enough content on offer to make the $10 worth-while, and at eleven scenes (many with multiple iterations), multiple smaller bits, multiple battle sex mechanics, stealth mechanics, and something like seven hours to see everything overall, I'm confident that most people will find it satisfying. There's always some subjectivity to these things of course. Personally, I couldn't get past the first few rooms of Tailbound without cheating because the difficulty spike is so rapid, and I didn't find the explicit content especially engaging, so for me it was a bit of a let-down. Obviously others have enjoyed it.

What it comes down to, however, is this: This game took a little over a year to make. With the two packs, at least a year and eight months. The price is good where it is, at least for the foreseeable future. Either the game's worth that, or it isn't worth anything.

And most people seem to be happy with that price point. But again, if the game isn't your thing, and you'd rather not buy in the future, that's fine. That's entirely your choice. As you've pointed out, there are plenty of other options out there. I make games, I put them up, and people buy them if they like what's on offer. If you don't, that's ok. If other games get you off better, play those, by all means! Just understand I never had any intention of competing with Left 4 Dead or Doom. That's not the sandbox I'm playing in.


Edit: Doomfurry turned off replies, so I'll simply replicate his last post, and my reply, here:

Doomfurry96: 

That's a long winded way of saying "I already got your money, and I don't care". Here's a business tip, a majority of the people who have an issue, don't complain, I do. Your meager justification of "everyone is happy" is false. Your response to the various other options is that you don't care, and your response to a very much comparable priced game, gerne, and style is pretty much that you don't like it because you suck at video games. 

Be that way then, and since you've shown your true colors, all I have further to say, is go fuck yourself.

BitshiftGames:

It's unfortunate you feel that way. I'm always glad to engage earnestly, and on the merits, that's how things improve. But it's clear from your comment history you're uninterested, or unable to discuss things in a meaningful and respectful way, and that means any further discussion genuinely would be a waste of time.

(+1)

I'm glad things are going well for you and you're supported by so many people. I hope real life isn't tough on you over these coming months. Have a good and productive Summer!

Thanks! Will definitely try.

(+1)

id like to know what this..."bar" is when trying to use the stairs in the center path?

Just flavor, there's nothing down there. I wanted people to not miss the alleys, to think of them as places you could go, so when they started grabbing clients they went "Oh right, the alleys." So the bars and signs are just there to draw attention.

(+1)

I find only one thing that bothers me is that there's no way to fuck Mezz up without ending with Forget-click/Game Over and thus no way to actually corrupt him, to make him struggle though it and to feel the consequences of his failure gameplay wise.
I'm also interested, what is that CREEPY RED stuff going to be, that used on Mahir.
Maybe it is the "corruption" thing i was saying about. Or even something... alien...

(+1)

If that's what you're looking for, I highly recommend the "trained" end with Mahir, the one involving the charm. Consequences of that will carry over to the third game. In a more broad sense, eh, it depends. Obviously corruption does effect gameplay, in a number of ways. Certain areas, like the Center Path and Host Club aren't even options until you've "loosened" him up a bit, and the alleys have an entirely different mechanic once you're corrupted enough.
As for Raspy Voice, will have to wait and see :D.

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You know, I've been following since CS early development.

You really seem to dismiss your artistic talent. You HAVE improved, but your art was already good. GT just shows how much you've increased your skill.

And that's not even talking about your skill at coding the game. I've never been as impressed with a hypno game, the mechanics, and how well you used RPG Maker to do it.

Really looking towards the future story!

PS. And yes. The new outfit is just lovely.

Thank you, definitely appreciate that. Skill is somewhat relative, obviously. I would say that as objectively as I can look at it though, my stuff still has a ways to go, for a variety of reasons. Not enough depth, not a strong enough sense of anatomy and posing, not enough variety in composition, barely any understanding of drapery and the physics of clothing, I could go on. But it's been good enough to work so far, and I improve bit by bit. With any luck maybe I'll finally be fairly happy with my progress by the time I hit the fifth game. I will admit I'm already far better than I ever expected to be though. There really is something to be said for just putting in the time. 

Glad you're enjoying the mechanics though. Lot of imperfections there too, but I definitely think there's enough to have fun with, and I've had a lot of fun working out new stuff there. Heck of a lot of content overall too, for a $10 game. I think we're past seven hours now to see everything? Assuming no text skipping.

But yeah, you have remember you get to experience the game in the ideal way: playing through it a couple times, then setting it down. I've spend nearly two years now basically living inside GT, day after day, so I see the imperfections a bit more keenly. But I am still proud of it, and I agree with you, it has a lot to offer. 

(+1)

Love the development and everything but to me, the introduction area is missing a lot. I would like to see another installment where it gets used as the base of operations with multiple factions and quests but I know that's hard to do especially as you aren’t a full fledged developer.

(+1)

There's a reason it's missing a lot: this is only the second game of FIVE, and the FIRST with that hub area. It exists a. for intro story purposes at the beginning of each game, but b. to gradually get filled in with extra stuff as we go on. That boar encounter being the first of many similar side things. To be clear I'll never have full-on elaborate side content coming off there, but there will be additional scenes and stuff going on in the hub as we move forward into the other chapters.

(+1)

I do like the precedent set that if you have some issues in these chapters, those issues will 'follow you home' so to speak.

It definitely opens up some fun possibilities, and it means I don't COMPLETELY lose the ability to still do some scenes with old characters once a game ends.

(+1)

Im so happy to hear more about the development, and how stuff are going ^-^ really amazing work on this pack, as alwyas my favorite part of the games are game overs. And damn u nailed it! Much love and success to ya i will be here with ya until the bery end!~

Thanks, appreciate it!

(+1)

excited for pack 3!

(+1)

Like how the street outfit comes with mascara just so the hyenas can make it run lol

(+2)

I mean, no self-respecting whore freelance entrepreneur would go out without proper eye decoration surely. It's absolutely part of the uniform.

(+1)

Which as much as he probably wouldn't be thrilled to be wearing it, he had to put it on at the gate and reapply in the alleys everytime he got facefucked. The mental image of Mezz doing the wide-eye open-mouth putting on mascara face each time XD

(+1)

Oh there's all kinds of goofy stuff you can get into if you think too hard about the practical reality of some of this stuff. Which I generally don't because it ruins the fun, but it is funny to consider sometimes. Like how he's somehow getting all this out of his fur each time. But this is fantasy: everyone is always horny, full of energy, perfectly in shape (or perfectly OUT of shape in just the right way), and holes are always clean, stretched and ready to go,

(+1)

Pack 2 was amazing! ^^
I loved the outfit and everything, while I do kinda like some of the other pathways more this pathway is definitely great ;3
And short like it's meant to be lol

(+1)

I'm assuming it's ok to talk about spoilers on this post? Um, I'll still leave it at the end, though

While I honestly prefer the, gameplay? of the club more, I do honestly prefer the street wear outfit. I mean, yeah. just look at 'im. He's really cute in it, and I honestly wish he kept it

Spoiler part

I know Kahzeem is probably more evil than Mahir (maybe...Idk). But I honestly prefer Kahzeem's end

Like, ok sure. Mezz is basically Kahzee's personal, fuck toy, in that ending. But at least he can still move by himself, and is like, alive

But in Mahir's end. Mezz is it kept in storage, basically on life support, until Mahir decides to use him. And the last part, honestly made me uncomfortable

I know both options aren't good. But to me, Kahzeem's end, seems like the lesser of two evils

It's certainly more dark in a way, yes. And different people will be into different stuff, if you don't like a particular path or scene, that's alright. But I will say that for me, ALL of it is pretty dark in one way or another, which is deliberate and the core kink of it. All of actual bad ends result in Mezz ruined, enslaved and with a significantly reduced life expectancy, one way or the other. 

But again, different stuff for different people. I'm sure a lot of people just aren't down for a game as dark as this period, even with the cartoony element lightening it somewhat. I just glad you do still enjoy SOME of the game (probably most of it?).

(+1)

I actually do enjoy most of it ^-^

And while I do like stories with good ends. Where the hero saves the day and everyone lives happily ever after. I do really like stories with bad ends. And sometimes, I find bad ends to be more enjoyable than the good endings

Like...This game. Like sure, in the good end. Mezz defeats Kahzeem, and gets the disc that could, help people? (Sorry, it's honestly been awhile, since I started the game from the beginning) But, there's no real garuntees (I'm assuming). And Mezz didn't really save the gutter. Just replaced one big bad with another

But at least in Kahzeem's end. He doesn't have to worry about that. He gets to enjoy life in a nice(ish) place, and doesn't have to worry about saving the world. He can just enjoy life. Sure, he'll die sooner. And he's not, "all there". But at least he can live the rest of his life in ecstasy

Nah, I get what you're saying. It is a more "cozy" bad end in a way. And I wouldn't worry, that's still what I tend to gravitate toward too. Just wanted to go a little harder with Mahir.

(+1)

Is it fine if I copy paste my saves from the first edition into the save folder for the second pack? Or should I just use the Starter Save

They should work fine, but it's more about position in the story. As long as the save is from before meeting Mahir the first time, it should be fine. If it's after, you're going to end up running into glitches because a few things got re-arranged.

(+1)

so what your saying instead of us just getting a scene for the strip club we get to actually make mess work for it? I hope this is a case where he’s not completely under the effects of the drug because his reaction will be priceless. 

It will be...more interactive than usual, yes.

(+1)

I’m excited for sure 

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I loved the second content pack. You are amazing at drawing expressions on Mezz. I find expressions to add so much to artwork, and you do such a good job at it.

(+2)

Aw thanks! Yeah, expressions help, or hurt a lot, so I try to really nail them. I try to make the whole picture good of course, but most people aren't taking out a magnifying glass to check every little thing: it's mostly about the energy, and most of THAT is in the face.

(+1)

Will the mini-game be about memorizing inputs to make Mezz dance or otherwise do something that arouses customers? Or is it a spoiler?

I concur that the art has improved, as it seems not only smoother and more consistent, but there's also more to each image. I think the tears were a nice addition to the second content pack, by the way, especially when one contemplates whether the tears are ecstasy, agony, or both. I also like how his fur distorts as they grab him, reminding us that he's fluffy and not the typical "rubber skin" cartoon character we see in other works.

Whatever is going on with your personal life, I hope you remember to take care of yourself, and to not get overtly stressed over timelines for your projects.

Won't say any more specifically on what the final job might be, will leave it with what I've said so far.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of nose scrunch. Will have to try to get that in more often.

And thanks! Nothing too dire, just the kind of bullshit that rears its head every so often.